Blueprints to Inclusion: Championing Women in Design-Build and Beyond

In the latest episode of the Design-Build Delivers podcast, we sit down with Anna Pridmore, LaDrena Dansby and Barbara Wagner to discuss the impact and future of women in the AEC industry and how design-build is well-situated to support and elevate women. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, from the challenges women face in the industry to the unique skills and perspectives they bring.

Our guests share their experiences and insights, highlighting the importance of soft skills, mentorship and advocating for diversity. They also offer advice for young women and non-binary individuals interested in pursuing careers in construction, emphasizing the value of confidence, taking risks and building a productive and supportive network.

Tune in to learn more about the role of women in shaping the future of the construction industry and how DBIA can better support and encourage diversity of thought.

Stay tuned for more from this episode with Design-Build Delivers Bonus Content, longer conversations with our guests. Coming soon!

Guests, in order of appearance:

LaDrena Dansby, PE, DBIA
PM/CM Program Director
AECOM

Anna Pridmore, Ph.D., PE, DBIA
Vice President – Pipeline & Water Infrastructure Solutions, Strategic Market Development
Structural Technologies

Barbara Wagner, LEED AP, FDBIA
Executive Vice President
Clark Construction Group, LLC

Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.

DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.

Chapters

• 0:00 Women in Construction: Laying the Foundation
• 5:35 Origin Stories with Anna, Barbara and LaDrena
• 14:22 We’ve Come a Long Way, Baby –– But We’ve Still Got a Long Way to Go
• 21:37 Bob is Just a Grumpy Old Man: Gender-Based Challenges Still Exist in the Industry
• 26:06 The Collaborative Nature of Design-Build and the Skills to Succeed
• 29:20 Okay, but What do we DO about it?: Lessons Learned and Next Steps
• 34:57 DBIA's Key Role in Encouraging Diversity of Thought in Construction

Transcript

00:00

I don't think a lot of women know that they have opportunities in the construction field. Because if I knew what I knew now, about 10 years ago, I would have been a carpenter, I would have been a construction worker.

00:09

I don't have to look like I'm coming out of a magazine every day. I'm fine getting down and dirty. But I like to work next to the guys.

00:15

There are not enough of us in the industry, but we're obviously doing something about that.

Erin Looney  00:21

That comes from a promo by Metro Los Angeles this project labor agreement construction careers policy. The program was designed to diversify the construction workforce by providing opportunities and training for women and minorities. I am Erin Looney at the DBIA national headquarters in DC. In this month's episode of the design build delivers podcast brought to you by us CAD we are going into that world of women in construction with a focus on how design build is well situated to support and elevate women in the field. We are speaking with three women who come from three different backgrounds and have built three very different careers in the industry. Blood Drina Dansby is a DBIA, certified civil engineer and owner of re AC Inc, a small woman owned business. She is also a founding member of y ops women and construction operations, a member of the DBIA W PR board and a commissioner on the LA County Water appeals board. Dr. Anna Pridmore is vice president of pipeline and water infrastructure solutions for structural technologies. She has over 15 years of interdisciplinary experience working with Advanced Composites with a specialty in pipeline rehabilitation. Anna was a lecturer at University of California San Diego and is currently a lecturer for ASC EES continuing education division. She is DBIA certified and a member of the DBIA water wastewater Markets Committee. Barbara Wagner is an Executive Vice President with Clark Construction Group, one of the largest general contractors in the country. She has over 40 years of experience in construction and holds a contractor and engineers license in the state of California. She is also one of the founders of the women in construction conference holds a LEED accreditation and is one of five women among DBAs fellows. But first to understand why this episode and why now let's set the stage

LaDrena Dansby  02:02

people are unaware of the vast amount of careers that exist in the construction industry. You know, you say construction, I didn't care, you know, swinging hammers, but we have a diverse array of skills. That's

Erin Looney  02:16

the Drina, on how a lack of awareness and early introduction to the breadth and depth of the field can keep women and minorities out. In 2023, women accounted for 11% of all workers in the construction industry and less than 1/3 of those working in manufacturing. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, despite women earning college degrees at higher rates than men, they still remain underrepresented in certain degree types that lead to well paid jobs, particularly those within the STEM workforce. For example, the University of Maryland Baltimore County found in 2022 that women constitute just 24% of engineering graduates indicating slow progress in closing gender gaps in STEM. The picture is similar for careers that do not require a college degree. In the last two years apprenticeship USA and the US Department of Labor have both released reports supporting workforce development programs such as registered apprenticeships and pre apprenticeships and retention once women are in the industry is just as vital. And I believes mentorship is one important way to retain women and minorities in the HVAC industry.

Anna Pridmore  03:20

Regardless of how you identify both from a gender or other diverse perspectives. Having an effective team of mentors is such an important part for how you

Erin Looney  03:28

grow your career. Later in the episode, our guests discuss a few ways to find those mentors and to cultivate networks that can provide much needed support. But what keeps women out of male dominated industries like construction, the National Science Foundation found in a report last year that women working in male dominated occupations still often face discrimination, harassment and a lack of networks essential for career progression. Barbara also cites challenges to advancement beyond management as another reason women are less inclined to join and especially stay in historically male dominated fields. And it's

Barbara Wagner  04:02

not necessarily just construction, but any male dominated industry that there are challenges with increasing those levels of women working within our industry, women get to a certain level engineer to project manager or whatever. But moving up beyond the manager level into that executive position is a challenge. Luckily,

Erin Looney  04:25

Los Angeles Metro is not alone in creating initiatives to attract women to the industry. There are several nationwide programs and there are several state and local level programs. For instance, in Massachusetts and in New York, and in Illinois, the state received a federal grant to increase women's participation in the construction industry. Here's Illinois Governor JB Pritzker,

J.B. Pritzker  04:45

Illinois is a national leader in building pathways for women into infrastructure and construction careers. The status quo doesn't reflect the tremendous talent that exists in all of our communities and particularly on among women,

Erin Looney  05:00

strategies for attracting and retaining women in the AEC industry have economy wide benefits. supporting women's attachment to the industry can cause a ripple or even a tidal wave across the greater workforce, improving economic security not just for women, but for non binary individuals, for minorities, for individuals with disabilities and for other marginalized groups. I didn't

05:22

expect my daughter to want to follow in my footsteps. So I actually see my daughter putting on her booth. And I'm like, here's my girl, look at her and you turn around at the end of the day, you're like, look at this, this is the station that we're doing. This is what I'm a part of

Erin Looney  05:35

now that we understand the broader landscape of women in construction. Let's talk to our guests about their experiences and loop all this back to Design Build. Among the many reasons we invited the three of you on to this episode is that you each have a slightly different origin story. So let's start with that share your origin story with us. So let's start with you Audrina, then we'll go to Barbara and then over to Anna,

LaDrena Dansby  05:57

how I started was definitely my parents said, you're going to college, so I have to figure out what to do. And so I decided to go into engineering. And when I went into engineering, construction just seemed fun. So after being a design engineer for six years, I decided to go into construction just leap in, I didn't know anyone that was really in the industry. But I leapt in, and it proved itself to be a great industry. And it is fun. I was

Barbara Wagner  06:30

always in a male dominated environment, especially in high school, I was a four varsity Letterman. I was used to being around men, but I really liked working on a lot of different projects and initiatives. And I tested very well on math and science in high school. And along with spatial relations, so my guidance counselor said, You need to be an architect. And I said, Okay, sounds good. So I applied to a bunch of architecture schools, went and got my, my degree in architecture and realized it's not really what I wanted to do. And again, since I was more proficient in math and science, I figured well, let me get an engineering degree too. So I went back to college to get my structural engineering degree, got my master's in engineering, and came out of that and interviewed with a lot of a firms along with some construction firms. And I decided at that point, I really wanted to not be in an office, but to be outside in the field. And so I for that reason, I went into the construction industry, and I've been with in the construction industry for over 40 years, and with Clark for 39 that I led my first design build project in the late 80s. And back in DC, it was a federal project. But having both the architecture degree and the engineering degree made me more accepted within that, that Design Build Team. And that kind of started my love for design build.

Anna Pridmore  08:04

I did something similar to Barbara and that I started in one path and then shifted throughout my college career. So I actually began as a bio engineer, and shifted a few years into my undergrad, in part because I wanted something more hands on. So I done for the first few years research. So really interesting projects. But looking into a microscope and sitting at a bench and realized it wasn't what was going to call to me long term, I wanted to be able to see a project that I started all the way through to completion. And it was so exciting to me that within the Civil and Structural engineering world, you could design something and then get a chance to see it all the way through to completion. And University California, San Diego where I got my bachelor's, master's and PhD, I had the opportunity to work in their large structures lab, and which really sparked my love for design build. So I was given the opportunity as part of my PhD to build some 25 tons sections of reinforced concrete bridge that had carbon fiber panels, got to design them, build them, test them and then analyze them. And that concept of being able to manage a budget or schedule a large field crew work through constructability challenges really drove that love of getting a chance to see something all the way through to completion.

Erin Looney  09:21

So a follow up to your origin stories. Talk about your experience in terms of inclusivity and diversity. For

Barbara Wagner  09:29

me, I was somewhat blind in terms of understanding and seeing the biases within the construction industry. At first. I when I interviewed after I got my master's in engineering I interviewed for besides a firm several construction companies and I had one construction company that wouldn't even look at my resume because they said women don't belong in construction. You're too pretty and I'm not even going to interview you and then 30 yours, I found that a lot of times I was the only in the meetings, right? It became important is people got to know you, they began to respect you and understand that you were the knowledgeable one in the room. We've all had challenges over the years. But again, I think as we work through those and understand the biases, intentional or non intentional in the sources of those biases, we're experienced enough to be able to overcome those and help others.

LaDrena Dansby  10:30

When I entered the construction industry, I was the only female besides the woman at the front desk. And I happen to have been the only minority but an African American woman. So that was not unusual for me. So I would when I went to college, graduated in my class, there were six of us that were minorities, African American graduating from engineering school, so I was accustomed to being the only, but when I stepped into the construction world, I literally was the only only so the only woman, technical woman, the only African American. And it was quite comfortable for me because I was accustomed to that. But I actually felt accepted, it was other people that came in from outside. So like when have I worked for a construction management firm at the time. And so when the contractor that say will come in from outside, or the client would come in, or a vendor would come in, they would naturally make the assumption that you know, I'm the admin person or that like I was not to provide them technical information. So having to overcome that continuously. At some point, you, you just even bypass that whole conversation, and you just get right down to business. So I think that it really focused me to be able to get down to the issue, and let people get past their moment of uncertainty and how to accept what's happening. And you know, there was high expectation on performance as a woman, so I couldn't sit there and waste time because it's like I had to do 110%, I always had to be performing. And and so that I think having that expectation early on in life, in my career has allowed me to be very flexible in thought, and to figure out how we could bring multiple people together, share ideas, and then move our projects forward.

Anna Pridmore  12:41

I found that it really vary depending on the environment that I was in. So I early on in my career really got exposed to a variety of different environments. So one was within the academic setting, which had one set of how you're perceived based on your diverse perspectives, but then heading out more into the workforce where I worked across engineering community on the construction field, and then working throughout different market sectors. So for example, heading on to a power plant, and how some of the guys that have been there for 30 years, they're working with a small core group there that they may not have exposure to a female, let alone a young female that has a lot of enthusiasm and opinions, and me putting it through the filter of realizing that in order for me to build rapport with this person, I need to understand where they're coming from. Take a step back, pause a little bit before I proceed, because if I haven't started to establish a foundation of report before I jump straight into the business side, you lose your audience before you begin moving forward.

Erin Looney  13:48

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Erin Looney  14:22

The Washington Post did the analysis in 2022. I know it's two years on, they said there had been a sizable jump in the number of women working in construction and that jump started more like the ramp in 2016. Now, that numbers still sits somewhere between only 10 and 14%. Depending on the source you consult. numbers like that are interesting to look at, of course but you all live the reality of that every day. So I've got two parts to this question talking about the lived reality of the numbers. First, we'll start with why do you think more women began to work in the field around 2016 And why it's climbed a little accents. Looking

Anna Pridmore  15:01

in those two different facets, I think one of the important reasons where there began to be a shift with additional women entering the workforce of engineering construction field around that time, was the focus that we had on STEM, the more that the focus happens at the elementary school level throughout high school, that's what's going to feed the funnel that then grows into people enthusiastic about a career in college as well. And so it's exciting to get to see more people continuing to head towards this career. But in terms of the numbers as they progress, from high school, to college, and then each one of these gates along the way, that really lends itself more towards the inclusivity side. So it's one thing to have the diversity as you head through people interested in high school, heading over to college, having them continue through the workforce really, really comes to the level of inclusivity, and how the various companies are able to help support a diverse workforce feeling included, and feeling that they can bring their whole selves to work.

Barbara Wagner  16:05

I think there's also a different generation of leadership than what we experienced when we started in the industry, that are more perceptive to having that diversity. So I think there's less of a bias in the industry. Again, I think it's generational to, besides, as Anna said, all of the initiatives that have been out there for STEM, and I remember, even back 25 plus years ago, going into some high schools and universities and you know, promoting the industry. What

Erin Looney  16:41

do you think now are some of the reasons the percentage of women in construction, though, is still barely in the double digits? Based on what you just told me? It seems like there would be a little more movement, but it's still, you know, the highest estimate I found was 14%. I would say,

LaDrena Dansby  16:57

the reason is awareness. People are unaware of the vast amount of careers that exist in the construction industry. Most people think, you know, you say construction, I think you're, you know, swinging hammers, but I mean, we have management, we have accounting, we have a diverse array of skills in this business. And so I think that message has yet to sort of get into like the academic system to tell youngsters when they're in school. Like there's a vast amount of career, you wouldn't be an accountant, you could actually be a cost engineer within the industry, right? It's like so much available. And I think that information is in getting into those persons that are looking at their career. So where do I want to do I want to go into international business, guess what, you could be an international business in a construction company. So I there's not an awareness of all of the opportunities within the construction industry. It's

Barbara Wagner  18:05

not necessarily just construction, but any male dominated industry that there are challenges with increasing those levels of women working in that industry, whether it's biases or whatever. But, you know, I go back to the challenges that the discussions decades ago about the glass ceiling, right, in terms of the ability to be able to move to a higher level within your industry, whether it's construction or architecture, or what are engineering, whatever it may be. McKinsey puts out a report every year, called women in the workplace, and they call it now not the glass ceiling, but the broken rung. And I see that within our industry, women get to a certain level, you know, engineer to project manager or whatever. But moving up beyond the manager level into that executive position is is a challenge. And that's that broken wrong. And it's so important that you have an ally, a mentor and advocate that's going to help you get through that and move up within the organization. So I think a lot of it too, is that they don't see the potential of getting into the C suite within any sort of, you know, besides construction male dominated industry. Barbara, I

Anna Pridmore  19:26

love what you mentioned there about the importance of mentorship. I think that's something that regardless of how you identify both from a gender or other diverse perspectives, having an effective team of mentors is such an important part for how you grow your career. Because as you navigate throughout a career, there's inevitably going to be points where you're looking to understand, how do I go to the next level? What's the right move? Should I take Option A or Option B in terms of an area to focus a specialization? A certain promotion or how How you continue to grow, and starting to build that network of mentors is so incredibly important. One of the things that that I've realized along the way is that many times they're timid in terms of just asking for that help. And understanding that, especially, you know, the folks on this call, I'm guessing if if any person would reach out to you, you'd be happy to provide mentorship for them, of course. But understanding that often people don't even ask for help, because they assume you're too busy. So for those who are listening out there, realize that if there's someone that you look up to someone that you admire, reach out to them, and they'd be happy to take 15 minutes to discuss your career and help you curate a really exciting, fulfilling career moving forward.

Barbara Wagner  20:44

That's a good point. And as I moved up through my career realized that there were some of these challenges in the industry. So a friend of mine and other Barbara, we started Women and construction 18 years ago, back in DC, we have them on both coasts, right now, realizing that women need a place to be able to have that conversation, find mentors, in every session that I do, I asked the women in the audience, how many of you have a mentor? And it's still amazing. It's like 30%, you know, and it's just, you know, a lot of them just, maybe they're afraid to reach out to ask for help. You're absolutely right, in terms of what works best for me. What's my next step? When I moved to the West Coast, I got with my mentor and said, Does this make sense for me in my career, so

Erin Looney  21:37

with this reality in mind that more women are entering the field, that the growth is not exponential, but they are starting to get into there. And there are still, obviously some challenges to increasing representation of women and non binary individuals. Barbara, you got into this a little bit. Actually, all three of you mentioned it to some extent, but let's elaborate on those challenges. What are some of the big ones that still exist for anyone entering the industry?

Barbara Wagner  22:01

I think the Drina discussed this earlier, when people look at construction, I think of blue collar only not the non field side of construction. And I think a lot of it comes from parents perception that my child needs to go to college and get a degree and work in, you know, certain industries, white collar, whatever. And on not understanding sometimes the potential of working, even if you are out there swinging a hammer or whatever the potential of working in the construction industry, especially as a woman, I think some of it is maybe some existing biases that remain out there. Both women, the families, maybe their parents hadn't gone to college themselves, but are hell bent on making sure that their child goes to college no matter what. So whether they want to or not.

Anna Pridmore  22:56

So building upon what barber said, one of the other areas that I see is a challenge that overcoming in this more male dominated industry is that occasionally, sometimes some of my male colleagues may come with a very abrupt approach for how they move something forward, and say, Hey, this is the way it is. And everybody in the meeting just knows, hey, that's the way Bob is he just comes off with his grumpy old man, quote, unquote, style. And they shrug a little bit and then move on. They respect him, he does his thing. Occasionally, he blows up at people. But to deal with it, there's still, from my perspective, a perception that that's still wildly socially unacceptable if you're a female to have a similar level of emotional outburst. And so one of the things that I've noticed is the importance of making sure to take the emotions out of the equation in those situations, so that it doesn't have a negative perception on you. And also taking the time to filter what you're saying in a way. So that you're really focusing on first trying to make sure that you're building a bit of rapport, understanding where someone's coming from, especially if engaging in a situation that has a higher level of conflict, because it's going to have a much higher probability that your voice will be heard. What

LaDrena Dansby  24:12

is a challenge challenges is the way certain groups socialize. So oftentimes, women socialize a little differently than men. And that those differences can matter how fast you could build your network, and how fast you could identify a mentor. So I think one of the challenges with women entering the construction industry is when they step in, they don't necessarily readily see someone that they can identify with, that they can start socializing with expanding their professional network. That's a challenge when women get into this industry. And there's another organization that I'm a founding member of which is women in construction operations very similar to what bar ever mentioned. And the entire purpose of that is to give women a, a opportunity to develop a social network. When we have our meetings, there's everyone looks like you, right? You're you're very comfortable, you can start having dialogue with people, and then just expand your network. And then you could find mentors or whatever it is that you need professionally there. I think that's a challenge for women, they sometimes will feel isolated while they're at work.

Barbara Wagner  25:32

I think also the Drina having these events, conferences, and then why ops and some of the other ones that are out there, we also ensure that men are invited to because men need to see some of the challenges that we're all facing. And these conferences aren't all about, saying how we're different. It's really about helping them with leadership skills, what to look out for, but inviting men to these meetings so that they could be become an ally or an advocate is super important, too. It's not just the Women's Club.

Erin Looney  26:06

Several other studies I consulted for this episode also kind of talked about what women bring to the construction industry, in terms of skills in terms of perspective. Now, there is a caution to go with. It's not everyone's the same. And skills and perspectives are not inherently gendered. But there is enough evidence to support the importance of certain skills that are commonly attributed to women more often than other genders, all of that to say, talk about soft skills in construction and their importance.

Anna Pridmore  26:35

Yeah, well, well, I agree that it's not inherent to a specific gender certain softer skills, there is within an Art Society a greater focus on some of the more nurturing skill sets that are often further developed at a younger age are further focused on at a younger age within females. And those soft skills, the ability to effectively communicate, working through EQ, conflict resolution, and those types of things, especially as you had focusing on design build, where collaboration is such an incredible focus, really have a strong advantage. And the more that those skills can be developed, regardless of how you identify, they're going to provide a lot of value as you grow, especially in the design build field, because it's all about building trust, and one of the foundations of trust as effective communication, effective conflict resolution and having the EQ to understand where someone else is coming from, where they may have a perception or an expectation, this difference and how to work through that as a team. Part

LaDrena Dansby  27:37

of the effective communication is listening, right? Some say that women, you know, we grow up, we're socialized more to playing one on one talking and that type of thing said a competitive sports and nothing wrong competitive sports I'm talking about from the early ages, we're socialized more into conversations. But what happens there is in order to be effective in communicating, you have to be able to share ideas. And in order to share ideas, you have to be able to listen. So I think where it could be said that women are are better listeners. And as such, allow others to share ideas. And in this design bill world, that's how we get the best product for our client is to be able to hear ideas, and then filter through those ideas, so that they benefit our project objectives and our clients.

Barbara Wagner  28:37

Some of the feminine traits softer skills include compassion, collaboration, relationship building, and people development, which are all important traits, and leading a design build project. So it's okay to be sensitive and to display emotion. But advice I give our women or all of our workforce realistically men or women is the importance of building relationships, not just within the company, but outside of the company with other organizations. Relationships are really the networks of our business. And so it's important to get out there, work on committees get involved with DBIA and other outside organizations. So

Erin Looney  29:20

let's end now by pivoting to some questions about how we can impact the future of the industry in the direction of more equitable gender representation. So first, what are some key lessons learned from your experiences that could help diversify the construction industry in a productive way?

Anna Pridmore  29:36

We've mentioned on this a number of times but the importance of realizing that you can bring bring your whole self and that you don't have to be one of the guys and that especially when it comes to the design build industry. The diversity of thought is a strength and also understanding I just had this conversation yesterday with with one of the people I mentor. She felt But she didn't always have something to say. And I said, sometimes one of the best things you can do is if you heard someone else that had a really good opinion or perspective, helped to echo that opinion, which helps give it additional credibility helps everybody rally behind it. So you don't always have to feel that you have to come up with something unique and completely different. Sometimes it's saying, I really liked what that person said. And she's got a great point, I think we should go with that approach. So having the ability to focus on mentoring, focus on advocating for others, is going to be a really important way to help grow careers and make people feel included,

LaDrena Dansby  30:35

be able to see the potential and people. So as you're developing staff, you need to see like, what are their career goals? And how do you enhance those. So I think looking around not only what a person is doing and what their typical career path could be expanding that path for them, allowing them to see that there are various opportunities, various options, there's no real wrong way the right way, as long as you're supporting them and making active decisions to enhance their career.

Erin Looney  31:05

What advice do you have for young women or non binary individuals, just non men interested in pursuing a career in construction.

Barbara Wagner  31:14

So I have a few thoughts. And this is advice I give to a lot of our women is to be confident. And to not underestimate your abilities. Take risks, advocate for yourself, find a mentor, build relationships, and then above all, above all else, believe in yourself and your abilities. And that's the advice I give to a lot of our women.

Anna Pridmore  31:37

I love it. Awesome advice, Barbara, continuing upon that, I think one thing is to go for it. It's a great career, there's a lot of tremendous potential here. And it's an industry that really wants you there's a lot of opportunities for growth. If I were starting right out in the career in construction, one of the things I'd recommend is to take the time to get experience in the field. Because having a foundation of going out to a job site, seeing what's done seeing how the work actually gets completed, regardless of where you end up in your eventual career path. That gives you a really solid foundation for how we do the work, what's going on, and the importance of the people who are at the frontline. And so that's really important to get that experience of how the work is done. At Clark,

Barbara Wagner  32:23

when I started 39 years ago, when you started with a company, you had to start in the field. And since we self perform, and do you see it was as a field engineer, guy getting up at four in the morning, laying out the columns and checking, you know, the foundation systems, etc. But I totally agree having that experience is was above all else, again, gaining that knowledge as to what's important. And what the company does is super important. Unfortunately, now, you know, now that we onboard, hundreds of people every year, there's not that opportunity, and especially in some other areas of the country where we don't self perform. But again, make sure I encourage our women, when they're on job sites, they tend to try to stay in the office and they don't go out and walk in the field. And I encourage them not to just do the change orders in the requisition and whatever. But to get out there in the field every day and walk around and look around, grab the superintendent have them, you know, talk to you about what's going on, it's super important that you get out there and get out in the field. And

LaDrena Dansby  33:34

a stole my words, go for it, you know that one of the hardest things we have to do is to start. So anyone is interested in joining our industry, I would say do it, just go do it. And take the advice like grab a mentor, learn as much as you can Barbara mentioned go out in the field, you know, get started, go do it. It's a fantastic career, lots of opportunities.

Anna Pridmore  34:00

What barber said about early opportunities within our organization getting out to the field. And that was a part of the rotation. Our organization does something similar. So as part of structural group, both for interns, as well as the entry level, what we call project engineers, they go through an extensive field rotation to get that hands on experience. And I would encourage anyone interested in this career to really take the opportunity, especially if you're still in college to go through and do an internship and to explore jobs within the industry that may have some type of rotational program that allows you to have experience in different facets. That then allows you to figure out which area you may want to differentiate because it's hard sometimes to know right off the bat what you may want to do. So some organizations have that type of program like ours do where you get a chance to rotate through different divisions and gets you that broader experience. So that's another really good option that gives you that insight.

Erin Looney  34:57

So the final question should The most important one, if you ask people in this building that I'm in, and the DC headquarters that DBIA? In what ways do you think DBIA can better support and encourage diversity of thoughts in construction,

LaDrena Dansby  35:13

I would say continue to engage with our owners, because our owners are going to drive the diversity because we are meeting the aspirational goals of our owners. So that in itself should add more diversity and inclusivity. And as Barbara mentioned, hopefully get you know, more women into the C suite positions. By

Barbara Wagner  35:36

said it before and I totally agree with Latrina, it really comes down to the demand to which maybe helps some of our organizations and bringing that diversity to the forefront, whether it be on a design build project or any project frankly, but especially in design bill, it is important that we have that as the Drina said the diversity cell we're not working in silos that we're learning how to collaborate and work together better, we're better together than we are as individuals, right? So it's important that we bring that to our teams in our design build projects. When

Anna Pridmore  36:14

I think diversity of thought, I think DBA The reason behind that is because the focus that DBI has on collaboration, on trust, and on building relationships, that is foundational to diversity of thought it's foundational to supporting and encouraging those relationships and DVI. Those values are holistically what the organization embodies.

Erin Looney  36:43

And a My work here is done thanks nice pitch for where DBIA fits into today's conversation about women in construction. And this conversation was much deeper than what you heard today. I could have spoken to Audrina, Anna and Barbara for hours. Lucky for them, and for you I did not however, if you want to hear more from them keep an eye out for bonus content episodes. We have one on work life integration, another on the importance of keeping women's programs alive, and a third on how to overcome the old trope of being one of the guys in male dominated spaces to be the first to find out when those bonus episodes are released. Follow us on social at DBIA national sign up for news and resources@dbia.org and of course follow the design build delivers podcast on your podcast app of choice. I am Aaron Looney, this is the design build delivers podcast. Thanks as always to Fred Yee, but he really had quite the jazz producing this one. Thanks to you for listening and thanks to us CAD for their continued support. Learn more about us cad.com/dbia