Everything’s Bigger in Texas –– Even This Episode: A Texas-Sized Recap of the 2024 DBIA Conference (Part 2)

The 2024 DBIA Design-Build Conference & Expo in Dallas was so big –– you know what they say about Texas –– we had to break the November episode of the Design-Build Delivers Podcast into two parts.

In this special episode, we’re bringing you the highlights from the 2024 Design-Build Conference & Expo in Dallas, held Nov. 6-8. Part 2 features our chats with Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award winner Don Warren, FDBIA, and Distinguished Leadership Award winners Emily Galliers, MCIOB, DBIA, and Rod Pope, PE, FDBIA. This super-sized episode is packed with interviews, award highlights and a whole lot more. Don’t miss a minute!

Guests:

Don Warren, FDBIA
Executive Vice President – Upstate Division, Omega Construction

Emily Galliers, MCIOB, DBIA
Design Manager, BuildGroup

Rod Pope, PE, FDBIA
Vice President, Brown and Caldwell

Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.

DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.

Chapters

• 0:09 DBIA Awards Highlights - Part 2 Intro
• 2:17 Don Warren on Winning the Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award
• 15:45 Emily Galliers: Young Professional and Distinguished Leader
• 26:04 Rod Pope: Distinguished Leader and Water/Wastewater Legend

Transcript

00:00

Music.

Erin Looney  00:08

Hopefully you've already caught part one of this special episode of the design build delivers podcast brought to you by us CAD in that first part, Released just before Thanksgiving, we recap some of the Design Build Conference and Expo in Dallas, talking to the student competition teams and some project and team award winners. Now we're shifting focus to our conversations with winners of two of DBIA individual awards, the brutaleski lifetime achievement award and the Distinguished Leadership Awards. We'll start with Don Warren, the 2024 recipient of DBIA is highest honor, the Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award. We also caught up with Emily gallery and Rod pope during the conference in Dallas. Rod and Emily are two of the 320 24 winners of the Distinguished Leadership Award given to members of the design build community for their exemplary work and contributions to the industry. Unfortunately, Tony Parrott, the third winner was unavailable for an interview, but you can still get to know him and rod and Emily a little better on the design build delivers blog  first, we are joined by the one and only Don Warren, a founding father of DBIA and the recipient of the Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award for 2024 Don's journey with Design Build began very early on, and his contributions continue to shape the industry as we know it. Now, a little about the award. First, the Brunelleschi lifetime achievement award is named after Filippo Brunelleschi, one of the greatest architects in history, and it's given to an individual who has made a transformational impact on the design build industry over the course of their career. Don truly matches that definition, and Don did share his thoughts on the award with the audience at the awards ceremony in Dallas, but we know not everyone was there, so here's your chance to hear his thoughts on receiving the highest honor DBIA can offer, on his groundbreaking work and on the legacy he continues to build.  We got to know you a bit at the awards dinner in Dallas, and your speech was really moving, but not everyone was there, and not everyone got to hear you speak about what it means to win the Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award. So let's provide that important public service now on the design build delivers podcast talk about what it meant to you to win that

Don Warren  02:17

well, as I think I said at the end of my speech, my four minutes out there was It's the highlight of my career. But really, when I say that, I'm really talking about DBIA to do 31 years with DBIA, to be a founding father, one year before my full retirement here at the end of 25 to get the bernschi Award. Is something I had thought of, but didn't know it would ever happen, but this highlighted my career.

Erin Looney  02:44

Thank you for coming on the show, because I know we have pulled you in a lot of different directions lately. It's like you're never going to escape us, but I hope that's fine. We really like celebrating you, and part of that reason is your journey with design build started very early, and as you mentioned, you're a DBIA founding father. So can you share that moment or project that turned you from a builder into a true design build advocate,

Don Warren  03:10

a project called McCrary saw and tool that I had actually been in the business for about a year and a half, and the owner of the company came to me and said, Hey, why don't you to go to build from a query, solid tool there, and you plant. And he said, I want you to get it designed, estimated, and go build it. And I said, Well, who's the designer? And he said, You go choose somebody. I said, Well, who's doing the mechanical, electrical design? You go find somebody. Long story short, I did that job. Went great. It was on time and owners happy under budget. I didn't even know the term design bill then, at 23 years old, but that's what we were doing, and that's what I fell in love. This is a great way of design and build what an owner wants and needs. I

Erin Looney  03:54

have to personally thank you, because had you not done that, there would be no DBIA, which would mean there would be no design build delivers podcast, which would mean there would be no meat. I'm kidding. But the point there, you have touched a lot of different aspects and elements of this industry. You know, maybe in ways that have not been spoken about. You don't win a lifetime achievement award if people are tired of hearing from you. And so that was the project that kicked things off. But among the many projects you've led. There's been the Bayer chemical plant, the Eli Lilly sphinx facility. Is there one that stands out to you as particularly emblematic of design, build done right? Well,

Don Warren  04:30

both those projects, the Bayer chemical plant, Bucha Park, outside of Charleston, won the project of the year for DBIA. Eli Lilly won the award of excellence in that category. It was a research and development facility, about $30 million but to answer your question, the most astonishing and outstanding design build project I've ever been involved with won Award of Excellence two years ago was the Pregis films job. It was only 16 and a half. Million dollars. It won over a couple of projects that were 150 and $250 million projects. But to build that, the president of preaches films locally called me, and I worked for him before, and he said, Don he said, I've got equipment. Ball. It's going to be here July. This was November 2020. COVID was happening, and I've got to make product by September 121, can you do it? And I said, John, if anyone can do it, our team can do it. And that was ignorance with bliss, you know, the next day, he gave me a little hand drawn cut through his 90 foot high tower that was going in a building he owned that we had to demo about 30,000 feet and put 105,000 feet of 850 tons of steel in a small footprint. Two things happen. We have in house, BIM, my friend Yu Chang. He's brilliant. He did BIM from beginning to end, and at the end of that job, with all this process piping and all this future and eight more lines. We just got one line running. That's what he wanted, but those other eight lines were different size machinery for him, so we had to take that into account so these other eight lines didn't have conflicts between piping electrical and at the end of that job, we had to move lines a couple of inches, all that. So we built it in 7.4 months. They had a third party process engineer working for preaches that wrote me a letter and said, Don what your team did normally takes 18 to 24 months, and you did it in less than 10 coming from a scratch of paper to making product was a little less than 10 months. To me, that's still the most amazing project. Design, build done right. No errors at the end, no rework. We put it where it's supposed to be. We had a great team, professional process, people and electrical and everybody we worked with all on before. And it just to me, I don't see it ever being topped that

Erin Looney  07:04

project, you said, was just a couple years ago. How did it feel to see best practices that you had been championing before they were before 2014 when they came out the first time? How did it feel to see that come together?

Don Warren  07:17

It was really almost inspirational to me to see that we still had quite a ways to go as an industry and design build that we can it's almost maybe before your time Kaizen, and that's kind of where I think design build is now, is at 1% improvements. But what we had in that job, with Pregis, was there was no BIM back in 96 and 99 and now it's just standard operations to use BIM. But to me, design bill is all about the team. If you don't pick a team that one is knowledgeable and experienced, but also work together. I hardly ever add new teammates. It depends on the industry. We did a whole lot of food projects in my career, and just because you can do food doesn't mean you can do a chemical plant or vice versa. And so I'm very careful about who I pick. I pick people I know and trust and know they can do the job and I could do everything design. Bill, that's what we do. But we have brought several, maybe 15 or 20 owners of my last 15 years career to be believers in design build,

Erin Looney  08:26

which is what contributes to the 47% that we're approaching now they say teaching is as rewarding as building. So how do you approach mentorship, especially in your work with DBIA, College of fellows mentoring committee, but not exclusively there. One

Don Warren  08:43

of my spiritual gifts is teaching coaching. And I've always loved doing it. Coached basketball boys and girls when I was in my early 50s. And so I enjoy teaching. I still teach at church every Sunday. We've done that for the last 2829 years. So it kind of ties in with being a dictator. I'm a I'm the design builder. You all work for me. Here's what you're going to do. It's not that at all. You know, you got to get everybody to buy in and agree that this is the best way to to do this part of the project. And then changes have to be to do this part. But this together, everyone achieves more. I've got a rock on my desk that says that team. I firmly believe that not just design build, but in anything you do, it's rare that one person is the reason something successful,

Erin Looney  09:33

even though we gave you a lifetime achievement award. So let's talk to 15 year old Don. If you could go see 15 year old Don, what would he think about you winning this Brunelleschi Lifetime Achievement Award?

Don Warren  09:48

He would probably be laughing

Erin Looney  09:52

at you or for you. Well,

Don Warren  09:54

just saying, man, you're a dreamer, probably right up there when I. I was pretty darn sure I was going to play college basketball and I would have, except I knocked a shoulder out of place in football and it I didn't fix it till I was 19 years old. I loved construction. I just love the people, and I love I love seeing at the end of each day you can see what you did, what you completed, even if I was picking up trash or mixing up, mixing mud for masons, or throwing boards and nails up to them. I knew I'd done something. I accomplished something that day, and these guys had built another 500 square foot of something. It's kind of like watching creation happen, taking plans and and building it like it's designed, and doing it quickly and right.

Erin Looney  10:39

A lot of times when I speak to people, they do say that. They say quickly, cheaply. And the first instinct when I first started was to go, Oh, those don't sound like good things. But the longer I have been with DBIA, the more I've realized those are neutral terms, until you apply the quality to it, and that's what the best practices and what DBIA stands for, and so thank you for being able to turn neutral or potentially negative terms like cheap and fast into desirable traits.

Don Warren  11:10

I didn't coin the phrase, but I sure say it a lot better, faster, cheaper. Design was better. Faster, cheaper. Key word in that is better. And when you tell an owner that you're going to get the best quality, but you're also going to get it 30% faster. And I'm not talking the construction in as much as I'm talking the design end of being able to get the civil design done and the structural design and get permits for that and begin building, versus the standard old line of got to get it all designed. You got to go bid it. You got to go, Oh, it's over budget. Got to do it again. That's why design build is better, faster and cheaper.

Erin Looney  11:46

And your prejudice films project really demonstrates that in almost an extreme way,

Don Warren  11:52

it did our contract. We never had a change order on it. That says a lot, too.

Erin Looney  11:56

You have mentored countless professionals over the years. What are some qualities you believe are essential for that next generation of design, build, leaders?

Don Warren  12:05

If I was starting over, you've got to realize that people have been doing this business for five years, 10 years, 20 years longer than you have and have been successful. That's the people you need to kind of single out and see form a relationship. And I had a couple of people come up to me out in Dallas, just that way. We had a mentor assigned with a couple of people I know, Bill Hasbrook was behind it, and I ended up with two a young lady and young man to talk to. And I enjoy speaking to young people and answering their questions as best I can, or even coming back to them with a question. Have you thought about this again? It's you got to be open to do it. I don't think there's anything more important than to be a mentor or a confidant of a young, rising professional who knows what they're going to do in the next 1015, 2025, years, it's going to be it's going to be amazing. I love listening to young people. I get to know them and answer the questions best I can. And if I don't know the answer, I'll say I don't know the answer to that one

Erin Looney  13:03

that's true. Leadership and Mentoring is to admit when you don't even know. And it made me think about my early broadcast days. There were two types of people who had interns. They were the people who said, You're my intern. You are here to make coffee and be my go person. And then there were people who said, obviously, you've chosen an internship at this station, and I'm assuming you want to do this someday. So let me show you what it looks like. And I had as an intern the absolute best they threw me on the air just with no training. But it helped. It really helped a lot. And I had people who allowed me to do that, and so I swore I would never be the Go get me coffee type, and I wasn't. And when you look back and you see who you've worked with and who you've spoken to, even if they never say it to you, which I'm sure they have those two students you talk to in Dallas, and anyone else you've worked with is going to remember that you were hands on, that not only did you have them ask questions, you were willing to ask questions and you were willing to say, You know what, I don't know the answer. I don't know everything. I think that's really powerful. And we don't often think about the value of not knowing something.

Don Warren  14:13

I agree with you. It's anyone that thinks they know all the answers. You know where they are right now, nobody knows all the answers. That's the other thing about our business. It is a complex business. Good, gracious. You got anywhere from dozens to hundreds of moving parts at all different stages, and to be able to manage that schedule, get material there, get it all done, in a way, it's a great business, and gives you lots of opportunity to be a part of so many different people's lives and their careers and their skills. I'm amazing watching welders and pipe fitters and electricians. That's their skill, and they're great. Praise the Lord we got them,

Erin Looney  14:52

yeah, because then you have to do it all by yourself. You know, the people who think they know it all, they're definitely not winning lifetimes. Achievement Awards. Now let's move on to the Distinguished Leadership Award winners. This award is given to individuals who have demonstrated exceptional leadership and commitment to advancing design build in their communities and the industry. This year's winners, Tony parrot, Emily gallery's and Rod Pope, embody these qualities with their dedication to the profession and their influence in both the private and the public sectors. We'll start with Emily gallery, a young professional and leader in design build and a champion of gender diversity and mentorship. Emily's career has spanned sectors, and she's using her platform to inspire the next generation of leaders, especially young women looking to break into construction and stem I also may have brokered a deal with her. Let's let's see how that went. Where are you from, and how did you get here?

Emily Galliers  15:45

I'm originally from London, and I moved to San Francisco around two years ago now. And yeah, loving it. I love living in California and in the US as well. I'm hoping to stay for a while. Don't tell my parents that, because they'll be very upset.

Erin Looney  16:01

I will be you. I'll go stay here.

Emily Galliers  16:06

Yeah, sounds good. Yeah,

Erin Looney  16:09

your parents have no saying.

Emily Galliers  16:12

It's been great. So far, I've really enjoyed my time here.

Erin Looney  16:14

I mean, you're in a good, interesting cities. Let's talk about your career. Now, your career combines architecture with Advanced Design Build approaches in high tech and pharma projects. How do you see the role of design build evolving in those two sectors?

Emily Galliers  16:30

I'll start with pharmaceutical industry. The industry typically leans towards a traditional delivery method just because of how prescriptive a lot of the facilities are. But having said that, I think one of the key drivers in the pharmaceutical industry is the speed to market. Getting your product on the shelf first is so key in that industry. So I can see that moving towards design build just because of how you can use Fast Track scheduling, and you can really make scheduling a lot more efficient in design, build, and then in terms of the tech industry, obviously, one of the key drivers for tech industry is innovation. They want to show innovation, not only in their software and the products, but also in the real estate, whether that's commercial offices or sometimes housing or even data centers. So that's why I think design build is so prevalent in that industry. As an example, I was very lucky to work on a huge project back in London for a very big tech company, which was a new European headquarters, and that one we referred to, or the project team referred to as a landscaper project because of the sheer scale of the project. So I think the best way to describe it is because we just had the Olympics. So imagine the Eiffel Tower on its side. That's how long this project is. Is as long as the Eiffel Tower is tall. And not only that, obviously, being in the tech industry, they want to show something that's never been done before. So a lot of the things that we did were the first of its kind, and the only way in which we were able to be able to problem solve all the challenges that came up on a daily basis was to use that big room approach, that collaborative approach that you have in design build also something I think is A key driver if a tech industry is around flexibility and what we call future proofing. As a example in the project that I was on, that project went from being over 10 years of planning and designing construction, and you think about the amount of technology and how that has changed and evolved the last 10 years. How do you plan for something that doesn't exist yet? And I think that's why design build is so good. We can work together as a team and be agile. Work through those challenges. We're going

Erin Looney  18:50

to move to something a little bit different now, as we mentioned in the session where we handed you your award and did a little fanfare for you. You are a mentor to young women in STEM How do you approach breaking down barriers in admittedly, is still a challenging industry for women, so

Emily Galliers  19:05

it's so important as someone as a like myself, working in construction, which is predominantly male dominated industry, to do my part in mentoring, because mentoring is essentially the best way to break down barriers and introduce more people into The industry. I think was really interesting for me is being able to tell people about all the opportunities in construction. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what construction actually is, and there are so many different roles, regardless of what your passions are, I think there will be a role that you would enjoy in construction that we need to talk more about in schools. I didn't have that opportunity coming from an all girls school. There wasn't a lot of push towards stem industries, and I think that's what we should be doing more. I think about myself right now, someone who is probably like mid in their field. So recently, I went to Yosemite, and I was climbing mountains then, and I think. The best way I can describe construction is similar to that, is that I feel when I first got into the industry and I was climbing up this mountain, and I had a lot of support from people, especially from women and men, and it was a great experience, and I really enjoyed it, and I've been promoting more and more women to also climb this mountain. But now I'm halfway up the mountain, and I'm looking up above me, and I can't see many people that I can associate myself with, meaning men that are at the top of this of the mountain. Obviously there are women, but there are very few, and it's hard to identify myself in that role. But looking down, you have a lot of pressure from people you want to lead that pathway for other people, which I always advocate for.

Erin Looney  20:45

Do you think there's any connection between the importance of having women just because you want other women to do that in the same career path, and perhaps being a human you're going to be a user of some of these types of facilities if you aren't in the room. Those people might not be thinking about how you, as a user, might interact with that building. Oh, yeah, 100%

Emily Galliers  21:05

it's something that obviously, I think a lot of women have a lot of ideas, and a lot of their voices aren't heard because they're a minority in that group. And having more women, you're going to have all these amazing ideas that we haven't thought about and in construction, there's lots of people talk about how buildings are designed for men because they've been designed by men in the past. And having more women in those top fields, having those opinions, being heard, we can really change how we design and design for women, and not just women, but as a diverse community as well. Yeah,

Erin Looney  21:42

I was thinking about it because with working in high tech and pharmaceuticals, you think pharmaceuticals, you think women's health, and how a lot of health stuff does not consider women, yeah, and then high tech, not usually. Technology is not a woman heavy field either. So yes, is

Emily Galliers  21:58

a problem in all industries. I've heard about how in the car manufacturing industry, your cars are designed for men, and actually the safety is prioritized for men, because that's most of the people that make decisions are for men, and it's the same in construction. So yeah, there is that element to it as well. You

Erin Looney  22:14

were a chartered builder. You were a DBIA Certified Professional. Thank you. So how have your certifications? How has that influenced your work and helped you advocate for design builds broader adoption?

Emily Galliers  22:26

I'll start with my MCI B. I think a lot of people don't know what MCI B is. It's world recognized accreditation, but it's mainly in the UK, so it stands for member of the Chartered Institute of Building. So it's a really good certification in a way that you have to prove that you're competent in all areas of construction. And when we we talk about design build, is that empathy towards people in different disciplines is so key, but understanding what other people do means that you have a different point of view, and you can understand where people are coming from. And I think that is key in design build. So I think that has really helped me in my career, understanding all those different roles in construction and then going to my DBIA certification. So I've been lucky that I've predominantly worked on design build projects. I think the first time I worked on full construction industry, we had a first kickoff meeting on this project, and everyone in the room, whether you're the client or the engineer or the architect. We all sat down, and we all signed a declaration to say that we will trust each other, we'll be transparent, we will work together collaboratively, and we work in the big room. And I thought, No, this is a great industry. This is not what people told me construction was about, and actually it really resonated with my own personal values and why I really wanted to get involved in the construction industry. From that point, I've carried on working on design build projects, and I'm really happy that it's really taking off, and so are we. But when people ask me about the DBIA community, I'm like, what does the DBIA community mean? I think the best way I can describe it. It's like something I'm really passionate about, obviously, across lots of different market sectors. But my favorite market sector is aviation. And one thing I really love about the aviation sector is the idea of a black box. This device is installed in every airplane. It basically analyzes everything that's happening on the plane, and it will analyze all the failures in aviation sector. Failures is a good thing. It's something that you can learn from with the DBIA community is a very similar idea to the black box is where we are being completely transparent. We're trusting each other to share our failures in order for us to progress and advance as an industry. And that's why I'm so keen on making sure that I'm a part of the community and what I can do as well to improve it. That's a

Erin Looney  24:45

really great comparison. Once again, congratulations. Thank you. You are the next generation. I'm excited to see what else you're going to bring to not just the DBIA community, but to construction and to stem on a larger scale. And if you would please. Call your parents and ask them when I can move it. That would be the last thing I need from you. And finally, we talked to Rod Pope, an expert in water and wastewater, design, build and a leader in DBIA committees. Rod's 41 years of experience have earned him a Distinguished Leadership Award, and his commitment to innovation and mentorship has paved the way for the next generation of design build professionals like Emily rod shared his thoughts on team collaboration, the challenges of engaging young professionals and what makes a project truly exceptional in the world of design, build, you are a Distinguished Leadership Award winner, which makes you a distinguished leader, of course. And you've been, as you said, 41 years. I have in my notes, you have been in the water wastewater game for nearly five decades, but I think 41 as someone who's 46 I would say that's closer to 40 years and not 50, however you choose to see it, it's been a while. So what in that time has been most rewarding for you in specifically in shaping the industry's best practices. And think about some of the projects across the diverse municipalities you've worked in, like Atlanta and DC.

Rod Pope  26:04

It's the collaboration of the process, working with the owners, contractors, the designer. Just have enjoyed that and treating the concept of one project, one team, everybody working together to be innovative and come up with solutions. I started early in my career in the design bid build, and ran up against a lot of conflict and working against each other, and got to be a better way. And I believe design build is that better way.

Erin Looney  26:35

Did you hear Tom Foley in the dating game refer to the design bid build years as the gong show.

Rod Pope  26:41

I thought that was excellent analogy there.

Erin Looney  26:44

So you agree with him. Well, you are also a leader in DBIA. Is water, wastewater program, our committee and all that work. What are some key challenges you've addressed through working with DBIA in that space, and how have those solutions shaped the future of water projects DBIA

Rod Pope  27:00

working with a lot of volunteers, it's motivating those volunteers to help contribute in committee work and realizing that bringing along young professionals, rising professionals, that are going to be our future. So it's basically training and preparing those folks to take over the industry in the future.

Erin Looney  27:21

I've heard you're actually pretty good at that. You brought up two groups that are notoriously, I don't want to say difficult to navigate, but can be people who are volunteering, and students and young professionals. We're going to put them together. But your colleagues have called you a mentor. They've called you a visionary, and they've said this is especially for these emerging leaders that you have worked with. So what are some essential qualities or some lessons you emphasize when you're guiding that next generation of design build professionals

Rod Pope  27:52

overall, overriding is respect for everybody. I think the benefit from design build is respectfully challenging each other, and that's how we come up with innovative solutions, new ideas in this design, build environment. Overall, it's collaboration, working together, developing innovative ideas.

Erin Looney  28:13

I'm going to ask you a piggyback on that, speaking of the volunteers, and I think our listeners might love to hear some tips on this, what are some things you have found that work in really engaging the volunteers you work with, because you're asking people to give their time for free,

Rod Pope  28:26

helping them envision or see what the outcome is going to be, that we're teaching and training and motivating our future replacements in this industry

Erin Looney  28:37

as a leader, which you would know better than me. You are the leader I am not, but yours, in this case, is in relation to award winning projects for DBIA in 2006 2010, and 2018 What do you believe sets apart an excellent project from a good project, especially in terms of our best practices and collaboration and innovation? It

Rod Pope  28:58

really boils down to collaboration, and as one of my mentors used to teach me, is to mind for conflict and find that conflict on the team and work through and resolve that conflict. And that enables you then to move on and work together. The four stages of a team is forming, second is storming, and that's a very important process to go through, and then forming and then performing, identifying where we are in disagreement and resolving that early on in the project. I think makes projects more successful. The three projects that were award winning were so because of just the creative back and forth that went on the first project, Nancy Creek pump station was a deep tunnel pump station that we got started. The owner gave us NTP about three months late, and so we were going to be three months late on the consent order the team working together rather than. Casting in place this 160 foot deep pump station came up with the idea of using silo technology from the Midwest and using a slip form. Rather than taking about four months to do all the concrete work. We did it in two weeks, working 24/7 and sliding that slip form up so we were able to meet the schedule the innovative thinking that can go on on projects.

Erin Looney  30:28

And you mentioned working 24/7 in order to get people to do that, they really need to believe in you as a leader. I mean, it seems I'm not going to follow somebody for 24 hours a day, seven days a week if I don't trust them. Think that's a testament to your ability to lead and to lead well, and of course, that leads to you winning this award, and I'm going to congratulate you again. Thank you, and thank you for being with us, and thank you for being part of DBIA. We need people like you to help train up the people who are going to replace you someday. Yes. Go relax. Yes. And that's a wrap on our recap of the 2024 Design Build Conference in Expo in Dallas. We really did celebrate the best of design build and DBIA during this year's event. Whether you were with us in Texas or you're playing catch up through the design build delivers podcast. Thank you for being a part of celebrating these extraordinary leaders in the industry. Don't forget to check out part one if you haven't yet, and then get ready to look ahead to 2025, which is right around the corner in December's episode with DBIA Executive Director and CEO Lisa Washington, and incoming DBIA board chair, Tom Foley, yes, I know Tom was in October's episode too, but Tom just has that much to say about design build. So we brought him back. Until then, I am Aaron Looney, and you've been listening to the design build delivers podcast brought to you by us. CAD, Learn more at us. Cad.com/dbia,