Design-Build Delivers

Living Labs and Inclusive Housing: How Design-Build Serves Higher Education

• DBIA

Share episode

Have thoughts? Text us!

In this episode of the Design-Build Delivers Podcast, we spotlight one of the fastest-growing sectors for design-build: higher education. From inclusive student housing to sustainable infrastructure, campuses across the country are embracing collaboration, speed and innovation.

You’ll hear from two design-build pros—both named Jason—who bring award-winning expertise to the table.

👤 Jason Dunster, Senior Integrated Design Director at McCarthy Building Companies, joins us to talk about UC Riverside’s North District Phase Two—an intersegmental housing project that blends university and community college students into a shared, inclusive campus community.

👤 Jason Tobias, Project Executive at Skanska, shares how Wake Tech’s Central Energy Plant became a living lab, a sustainability standout, and a model for progressive design-build—earning recognition with multiple DBIA Project/Team Awards and Green Globes honors.

🎓 Whether you're on a campus, working with one, or just curious about where design-build is headed next, this episode has something for you.

📌 Resources Mentioned:

This episode is brought to you by U.S. CAD, an ARKANCE Company.
 

Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.

DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.

 

April 25 episode

Wed, Apr 16, 2025 9:08AM • 45:43

SPEAKERS

Jason Dunster, Jason Tobias, Erin Looney

 

Erin Looney  00:07

If you keep up with FMIS data, and you should, you may already know what design build looks like across a number of industries, and if you read the design build delivers blog, another not so soft nudge, you also recently learned what design build looks like in healthcare. This month, we are switching sectors, and we're going to look at one of the other fastest growing segments, higher education. We'll explore how design build is helping campuses support both infrastructure behind the scenes and the students at the center of it all. Welcome to the design build delivers podcast brought to you by us, CAD and our cons company. You'll hear from two experts, both conveniently named Jason, who bring unique perspectives on what's possible when collaboration, innovation and shared purpose drive the work. And while I promise it's not a requirement to be called Jason to deliver award winning design build projects in higher ed apparently, in this episode, it doesn't hurt first. Jason up is Jason Dunster, senior integrated design director at McCarthy building companies. Jason began his career as a structural engineer focused on sustainability, then shifted to the construction side to embrace a more collaborative master builder approach. He joins us to talk about UC Riverside's North District phase two, a groundbreaking housing project designed to connect university and community college students in a shared, inclusive living space. Then we turn to Jason Tobias, a project executive at Skanska, who has been with the company for over 18 years and in the construction industry for 25 his experience spans a wide range of project types and sizes, from $2 million renovations to $150 million builds. A long time advocate for green construction, he has helped deliver multiple LEED and Green Globe certified projects this Jason joins us to discuss Wake Technical Community Colleges, award winning central energy plant, an infrastructure project that not only powers the campus, but teaches students. In the process, enter Jason number one. Jason Dunster, the North District phase two project is a joint initiative by UC Riverside and Riverside Community College to provide over 1500 new apartment style beds for undergraduate and graduate students designed to meet the urgent demand for affordable, inclusive student housing. The project focuses on creating a vibrant residential experience that supports academic success and community integration. This collaboration aims to become a model for intersegmental housing, blending students from two institutions into a single supportive campus community, DBIA and FMI Corporation regularly survey the industry, and what we're doing is tracking the future of design build. The most recent report that came out early this year shows education as one of the top sectors. In fact, it comes in third, behind manufacturing and highway and street. And from what FMI found, that growth is expected to continue through 2028 at least, I'm assuming, beyond, but that's as far as they've gone so far. So from your perspective, what makes design build such a strong fit for higher education projects?

 

Jason Dunster  03:15

That's a great question. It is a strong fit. I love FM, eyes data. It's one of my favorite sessions at the DBIA national convention every year. As it relates to higher education, though, one of the unique aspects of these projects is that they're rarely repeatable. Each higher education project is likely a one off development with its own unique program requirements and distinct end users. So collaborative delivery like design build creates an environment where that whole team, the client, the designer and the construction team, can continue to collaborate to hone that project to its most successful outcome. That would be things like the client's conditions of satisfaction, the design intent, the budget, the schedule and constructability for higher education projects. Design Build done right is faster, it's more cost effective, it's less stressful. And I think we wind up with more Win, win outcomes. And I

 

Erin Looney  04:20

like that. You said, design, built, done, right is the way to go. I've

 

Jason Dunster  04:23

been practicing I know my DBIA terms. That's

 

Erin Looney  04:28

all we need from people, is to know the DBIA terms. Otherwise, why are we here? Can you expand on the idea of why more universities are leaning into collaborative delivery?

 

Jason Dunster  04:40

Universities, like all the other type of clients, are leaning into it because it is simply a better way to deliver projects. They get more for their dollar, and I think particularly with this focus on speed, universities live on the semester timeline. Nine. And so the advantages of DBIA really align with those accelerated project delivery schedules. I

 

Erin Looney  05:07

came from higher ed to this job, and my entire world used to work August to May, and then, of course, June and July get lost in the frame. But it is. It's interesting to think about that in relation to this, because you're right. You know, you have these unusual and finite time slots in which these projects are less of a burden to the university, to the students, to the community.

 

Jason Dunster  05:30

There are some client types where being one day late is as good as being one year late. Higher Ed definitely, as you said, on this semester cycle, if you were planning on opening a student housing project in the fall of a particular semester, you cannot open a month later or three months later. Basically, you've got to go to the back of the line and start all over, and you're going to be a year late. That

 

Erin Looney  05:56

really will help people who are trying to understand why this speed is so important, it'll really drive that home. We are also seeing speaking of speed and efficiency, a lot more universities and colleges adopting progressive design build, which it's been growing. They love it because it is everywhere. It is a conversation piece. A lot of state and local level design build legislation has been built around progressive design build in the last couple of years. So looking specifically at PDB, why is that a good fit for campus projects, and when would you recommend it to an owner? Yeah, I've observed

 

Jason Dunster  06:28

that growth as well. I think it is one of the most beautiful forms of design build when it's done right. Progressive design build really adopts the culture of collaboration. I was just on a call with a university level client the other day where we were talking about this adoption of progressive design build, and one of the things they're tracking is the amount of cost and effort that they need to put into traditional design build delivery, and they're still a fan of it, but they're starting to now look at Progressive design build because of how much they're able to shorten up that time frame and get an engaged Design Build team working on their project, the end result is you're creating an opportunity for a much more efficient procurement process, since the selections you Make with your team are mostly qualifications based you're not so focused on the cost element in that early stage, right? You can really pick the best team that you want working for you the next, let's say, three years,

 

Erin Looney  07:33

now that we've set the stage through design, build and progressive and best practices, let's talk about a specific project. It's one you're working on now. University of California Riverside and Riverside Community College district have teamed up on this unique student housing project. It's pushing the boundaries of collaboration and of impact, not just from the construction standpoint, but from an actual use standpoint. This North District phase two project is delivering over 1500 new beds in a space designed not just to house students, but to connect them, especially first generation and low income students, with the broader UC system. It is progressive design, build in action, and it's aiming to become, I would hope, a statewide model for inclusive, intersegmental campus housing and what that can look like, but that's how I understand the project. Let's have you tell us how you understand the project. I think there's

 

Jason Dunster  08:28

two things I'd like to share with you and your audience about this project. The first one is what I'd call the unique flavor of design build that this project became. We've coined it basically as design, build Novation. That's the term we've given it in a polls from many of the various collaborative delivery forms, right? So we didn't create it from scratch. We used so much of what DBIA has already put out there in the industry, but the campus began this project actually as a p3 a public private partnership, but for them, an opportunity presented itself where they could create a joint venture with a nearby community college to offer housing to students on their campus, as well as create an enhanced pipeline between The Community College and the University for students to matriculate through. And the idea is that by giving the community college students that full four year experience and living on campus and having access to all the services you get at a university level, that they could significantly move the needle for retention and graduation rates. So this is the experiment. It is happening in three different campuses across the state of California. They've termed that effort intersegmental housing, as that joint venture was formed between, in this case, UCR University, California, Riverside. And Riverside Community College, they opened up an opportunity to receive grant funding for the project from the state, and that precluded the project from advancing further using the p3 delivery model. It disrupts the sort of financial model of how a private developer can lease the property back to the campus that just became a dead end. So the campus had to make a decision. They could either a start this project over from scratch, but you'd imagine that would cause significant delay to them, right? I mentioned those timelines of six months, a year, a year and a half, they didn't want to do that. So I think they made, ultimately, a visionary decision in project delivery to keep on the design team that they had already to advance that design through schematic level, and then the campus went out to then procure a design build contractor. Ultimately, that was McCarthy. We were selected for that. So we're all sitting at the table, and at that moment in time, the architect is still contracted to the owner. We're now contracted to the owner, and we work during this Novation period together to help advise the campus. So McCarthy was working like in a design assist type capability. So we're almost like consultants, a bit for the beginning part. Then the design team novates contractually over to McCarthy or the design builder, so now it is one entity reporting back to the campus, but they have confidence at that point that we're able to execute that vision for that project, very unique. I'll give very high compliments to our designer. The architect was Solomon Cardwell and blends. They approached us with the highest level of professionalism and collaboration. The campus did as well. Here would be my my pitch to you in the audience. That is, we're now three decades in with DBIA, and we're at least two generations of design build practitioners, so at this point, right? As it relates to the culture of collaboration, right, I am still a firm believer in sort of using the roadways that are already well paved, of design build and progressive design build. But I do think it's at least a tool in the toolbox that can be considered for certain projects, certain clients, if all those different elements line up, and this is a path that they're faced with. North

 

Erin Looney  12:35

District phase two, clearly, from what you just said, major undertaking we talked about the 1500 beds, and this covers more than 400,000 square feet, and like we've talked about, unites these two institutions under this one ambitious and probably really fun housing solution. How did this project benefit the project itself, not necessarily the behind the scenes in the contract, but the actual project, how did it benefit from design build, and what were some of the keys to making that successful?

 

Jason Dunster  13:09

There's a couple things that came up during the course of this project where design build really led to positive outcomes for the project. When we first saw the project during the pursuit phase, the design material was actually wood. So it was a type five wood structure. When we first looked at the project, and McCarthy came back and re evaluated this for the campus and the design team and said, We think we can give you a better product built out of steel. We think we can give you something that's more durable, has more fire resistance, isn't subject to mold or mildew or termites, and in fact, we actually think we can lower your insurance rates over the course of the building by going to steel that was kind of a new one that I think we surprised them with, that we were looking at it from that perspective. So we needed to do a pretty fast pivot once we were on board, and get the whole design team from looking at one particular material to a completely different system. I don't think that would have been possible with other project delivery models. I think design build lent itself to everybody coming to the table openly and weighing both the advantages and disadvantages.

 

Erin Looney  14:32

Well, I'll say this again. This project is different, and thank goodness it is. Student Housing absolutely had to evolve, thankfully, thankfully, Long gone are the days of those cinder block walls. It was always cold in there, weirdly sized twin beds, those plywood privacy dividers that were basically just glorified cardboard. I lived through that era, if you can't tell by the pain in my voice, was it character building? Maybe? Was it comfortable? Well, no, no, no, no. And after I've spent time in more college towns than I care to admit, I also watched off campus housing shift from luxury to full blown competition. A lot of campus communities, they just couldn't keep up. But North District phase two shows what's possible when campus housing fights back, or better yet, works to revive that true sense of campus community. It's not just a place to sleep, it's a true home. It's designed to bring students into campus life, not push them out of it. And you talked about that pipeline from the community college to UC Riverside, and that's such an important part of the experience being integrated into the school community is a massive part of college life. And then there's this piece that really sets it apart. It is, as you mentioned, this pipeline, it's one of California's first projects to house both university and community college students. So with that in mind, what were some of the design or planning considerations that came into play when you're creating a space that meets the needs of two somewhat similar but also very different student populations.

 

Jason Dunster  16:07

Good and tough question, because I can only answer this sort of aspirationally. This is going to be the first intersegmental housing project in the state of California. I mentioned there's three, but we're the furthest along. We're in construction. The other two projects are still in the planning phase. So some asset, what you're telling

 

Erin Looney  16:30

me is, if you guys fail, it kills the other two projects.

 

Jason Dunster  16:33

Well, I do believe in my heart, right? It won't be so black and white. There will definitely be things we can share with the other campuses as this project comes online, but some of the questions won't be answered until it is up and operating. But I can tell you from the design perspective, that there is no distinction between the university and the community college student environment, right? The idea is that they are getting the holistic support of housing and nutrition and the same experience that they would as if they were attending UCR that is very intentioned. You will not be able to tell the difference between those two students. So that's key to the success for many of these community colleges. This is their first student housing project. They don't have one on their own campus, so they may not have the housing staff and facilities team to support that building. So they are often relying upon the university level institution to provide that to that project, but it allows them to learn, right? So that maybe in the future, they are building housing projects on their own campuses.

 

Erin Looney  17:47

It really sounds like this could change the face of the student experience, especially those who choose to live on campus. And it also underscores this other thing I've been a little curious about as I was reading this, the project clearly goes beyond just logistics, and as you said, it's going to be difficult to call the game before it starts. But how did the goal of creating this inclusive and this immersive experience? How did that shape the physical space and maybe the community building features during the design? I'd

 

Jason Dunster  18:17

love to be able to take credit for it, but I will just do my best to represent, I think, the amazing design teams that are out there and the game in student housing, the bar, I should say, right, has just risen and risen. So now, the conscious thought of getting students out of their rooms and into a variety of spaces is pervasive in our whole industry. So whether it's a quiet study space that you can nestle up on a couch with Windows natural light and do some some quiet work, or maybe it's a neighborhood living room where you're kind of sitting with other students, or maybe it's a communal kitchen where you're taking cooking classes, you know, hosted by an actual chef. Studies have shown that students thrive when we provide these spaces. You mentioned, you know, your experiences going to school, and I can think back to mine as well. And it's this idea of the laundry room. It was once this dark, dusty, seemingly unsafe space in a basement somewhere that you dreaded going to and designers now have completely transformed a space like this into what I would call clubby lounge environment. The idea is, why not perform one of your regular chores in an open fun space that has music and lighting and activities. And I do have to give credit to Gensler, one of our architectural partners on on other projects that they've popularized this on several campuses, and it is one of the most popular spaces that clients just love, and the students love even more so.

 

Erin Looney  19:59

That is so cool, because all I can remember is bagging my laundry to take it home to my mom's house every weekend and promise her she wasn't going to have to do it for me. But I just anything I could do to avoid going in there and spending at the time it was like 50 cents, and it felt like a fortune. But that's such a such an interesting perspective, and I would have loved to have built some community around something that I mean, let's, let's face it, especially as a college student, is mundane and you do not want to do it. But let's get back to Design Build at a higher level. Now, this project reflects so many of the principles DBIA promotes. How did DBIA Best Practices influence the way your team approached nd two

 

Jason Dunster  20:41

I mentioned the design build Novation, but the campus really needed a North Star when writing out this design build Novation path, and it was clearly DBIA. The foundational elements I know that they adopted as their guiding principles were the same as DBIA, right ethical conduct, demonstrated competence, professional development and this culture of collaboration we've been talking about and inclusion, that groundwork of experience really helps move smoothly through all those initial partnering and trust building exercises. The campus, though, deserves, I think, really, so much credit, in this case, for establishing a two step process for design, build, procurement. So we were blazing new ground. But like I said, we were able to follow the stars that had been laid for us previously and that that kept us on track with design, build Novation we needed to address a term called warranty of documents, or spear and doctrine. It brought back some of my early certification training from DBIA when we specifically discussed spear and doctrine and warranty of documents. So I needed to go back to my old training guide that I have up on my shelf and look at like, how is this applicable? It doesn't happen too often in project delivery, but we had to specifically figure out in the contract how that was going to work, how we were going to talk about that spear and doctrine from pre Novation to post Novation, and without having things like DBIA certification, right, that allows you to go back to that library and draw that knowledge from I think we would have been a little bit lost in figuring out, you know, how to form a partnership we

 

Erin Looney  22:37

are happy to have helped you find your way earlier we talked about student housing in terms of its form. So we talked about comfort amenities, that feeling of home. But student housing isn't just about lifestyle. It's also about access. This infrastructure directly impacts equity. It directly impacts enrollment. We hear about housing shortages all the time. Housing shortages on campus are a growing crisis too. Nd too takes that head on by prioritizing support for low income and first generation students. So what role can design, build play in helping higher education institutions move faster and improve this type of access without sacrificing quality or without leaving community behind. I think the

 

Jason Dunster  23:23

great news here is that DBIA has already done the having lifting here for this part of the conversation, right? So they've told us that our this industry that design build projects are delivered 61% faster than Sea Mar projects or construction manager at risk. We here at McCarthy, and I think plenty of my teammates out in the AEC world believe right that statistic because we are delivering projects much faster than traditional delivery models and significantly faster than, let's say, design bid build regardless of the product type. Although, as you and I have discussed today, the urgency by which to get student housing on campuses is at the forefront of what we're doing here. And then the other one you mentioned, without sacrificing quality or community, these principles of collaboration, I think they just allow much better dialog about quality and what will influence it. I think they engage the community more throughout the whole process, through the whole design and construction process. It's a triple bottom line. You're getting things moving faster. You're getting equal or higher quality, and you have a more engaged community, hopefully then sort of winning the hearts and minds of your neighbors around you and supporting your project.

 

Erin Looney  24:48

So I have to say, I absolutely love when guests confirm the numbers that DBIA puts out, because you citing stats like that, 61% is so much more credible than me doing. It

 

Jason Dunster  25:00

me too, right. So

 

Erin Looney  25:04

are you interested in sustainable design and construction practices, but concerned about profitability? Us? CAD an Archons company helps forward thinking. ENR, top ranked AEC firms in mitigating risk and driving profit through digitalization, using Autodesk AEC technology to learn more, contact us, cad.com/dbia for a free 30 minute consultation. That's us, cad.com/dbia now from housing in California to infrastructure in North Carolina. We're gonna switch Jason's Jason Tobias shares how Wake Tech's central energy plant project became not only a model of sustainable design, but also a living lab for students and a master class in progressive design build. Now we've yet to see if UC Riverside's North District phase two brings home any DBIA project and team awards, but we already know Wake Tech is a winner in 2024 this project was recognized with best in process for progressive design build, a national award of excellence and a national award of merit. The Wake Tech central energy plant was designed to showcase sustainable energy solutions while serving as the heartbeat of a growing campus. The project includes 297 geothermal wells, rooftop solar and high efficiency lighting systems, earning it North Carolina's first ever for Green Globe certification. It was also named green globes project of the year using progressive design build, the team achieved early trade partner engagement exceeded state participation goals for underutilized business enterprises and stayed on schedule even when unexpected site conditions emerged. And this isn't your typical classroom building. This isn't what people think of when somebody says education facilities, or at least it's not what people think of first. This is a central energy plant that serves as both infrastructure and as instruction. So what made this project such a compelling opportunity for design build

 

Jason Tobias  27:08

so it was truly speed to market. We had a greenfield site just under 60 acres, and Wake Tech wanted to get the central energy plant built quickly and expeditiously so that it could support the other three buildings that were going to be on campus. So design build was the perfect model to get us going so quickly.

 

Erin Looney  27:28

This was also Wake Techs first design build project, and you use progressive design build, which makes a lot of people in our orbit happy, because people really love to talk about progressive what were some of the benefits of using PDB on this type of campus infrastructure, and how did your team help set this up for success? So

 

Jason Tobias  27:47

again, it really comes back to speed to market. By going through the progressive design build model, we were able to get our design underway immediately and then work through finalizing our GMP as that design progressed and so again, that aligns perfectly with the progressive design, build, model,

 

Erin Looney  28:05

yes, it does, and we appreciate that. Speaking of aligning with best practices, DBIA calls out early integration and clear communication as critical best practices, and talk about how those showed up on this job.

 

Jason Tobias  28:20

Wake Tech had some very ambitious goals for the project. Sustainability was one of the major components, as well as the facility had to be a teaching facility. So these expectations were clearly laid out at the onset of the project, and it was super important that the team understood these expectations, which helped drive the design and then ultimately construction. In addition, you know, as I mentioned, speed to market, we all understood the necessity to get this central energy plant built quickly. So again, by using the progressive design build model, we were able to accomplish that through consistent, clear communication, setting expectations early, that all really allowed us to get this thing done so quickly.

 

Erin Looney  29:06

So what advice would you give to other institutions that are curious about using design build, specifically progressive design build, but haven't taken that first step? I think it's so

 

Jason Tobias  29:17

important to set clear expectations up front and then have the entire team buy into those expectations, so that everyone understands where the project's going. That is a key step, as not only the owner decides to go the design build route, but again, to have those expectations set up front, so that everybody understands the path forward. In addition to that, I think there's a huge element of trust that needs to be established between the entire team so that everybody, again, is working towards that same goal.

 

Erin Looney  29:48

And so now we've spent some time talking about design, build and its fitness for this project, but now we're going to dig down into the project itself. We're going to start by talking about the. Sustainability, this has 297 geothermal wells, rooftop solar EV chargers, and it's the first facility in the state to earn four green globes. So how did the collaborative nature of design build enable you to hit these ambitious environmental goals? I

 

Jason Tobias  30:18

mean, it really started with Wake Tech and their ambition to hit net zero, or as close to net zero as possible. By taking that courageous step, it really challenged the design team to meet that ambitious goal, and so throughout the design process, we developed model upon model that helped Wake Tech make informed decisions about the path that they wanted to take, whether that was using a standard chiller plant with boilers, or using a geothermal system with heat pumps, or looking at life cycle analysis and payback timelines. All of that information allowed Wake Tech to make the decisions that they need to make in order to meet their ambitious goals of as close to net zero as possible. You know, as you mentioned, we did. We did solar light fixtures throughout the campus, which was unheard of, right? Not, maybe not unheard of, but it was. It was very progressive in that those solar light fixtures that go around the entire campus, they don't have any infrastructure that runs in between them. So there's no backup power. There's no nothing. We truly relied on a solar fixture to meet the site lighting requirements. Some of the other neat things that we did, we reduced the heating, hot water temperature that serves the campus from, you know, typically, 130 degrees, down to 105 degrees, but we were able to do that again because Wake Tech was courageous enough to allow us to that. To do that, we proved to them how it would work, why it would work, where it's been done previously, and they took that leap of faith, if you will, to let us reduce that temperature to 105 degrees, which tremendously reduces energy consumption and cost and so on and so forth. So that was a huge progressive step that allowed us to get there. And then obviously the geothermal field, 297 wells, 500 feet deep, just an amazing, amazing system.

 

Erin Looney  32:18

Yeah, amazing is a good word. And I actually really like how you said it was courageous, because, you know, we stay in DBIA, mostly on the side of this project was great, wonderful for the community, the owners, the teams, everybody came together and they did this great thing. But we don't often talk about the fact there's an entity. It's the owner who has to say, Yeah, you know what? Let's do this. And that does take courage, so I really like referring to them as courageous to let you take this on. But there's more to this project that's cool than just courage and wells one of the best things about it is how many layers it really has. I've attended or I've taught at so many different schools, universities, colleges, and they all have that cool thing going on, that thing everyone talks about. FAMU, for instance, has their Magnet Lab that they share with Florida State. And this is one of Wake Techs, really cool things. And what makes it that way is everything we just said, plus the fact it's a living lab. It's a teaching facility, like you mentioned, that is just such a great use of space, great use of resources. So what does that mean, though, in practice, for somebody who doesn't quite understand, you know what a living lab means, and how did design build help you integrate the educational use into the project?

 

Jason Tobias  33:33

The central energy plant is a facility right that supports the rest of the campus. I always think of it as the part of the campus. We were challenged from the very beginning, the design, build structure, to develop not only something that supports the campus through its function, but also that is built in such a way that the college's students were are able to view it, learn from it, understand how the systems work. Our design team really took this to heart from the very beginning, and not only put mechanical stuff inside of a box, they developed this box that had teaching elements, that had windows so that you could look into the to the plane. The systems were all color coded so you could follow each one of the separate systems. It was truly developed as a teaching model, not just as a function. You

 

Erin Looney  34:30

didn't just tack on teaching so that it looked a little bit cooler. This was with this in mind from inception,

 

Jason Tobias  34:36

yeah, from the very beginning. Again, they challenged us to make this a teaching facility. And again, we truly took this to heart, not only in design, but in construction as well, and we instilled that culture within our trades to help them understand what they were building, why they were building it, which truly put this above and beyond the normal construct. Production project. Everybody bought in, from the owner to the person pushing the broom. They understood why they were building this and what it was going to be used for in the future. So not just a standard energy plant, for sure, there's

 

Erin Looney  35:13

just something really powerful about having an understanding of the why, again, like the courage the why is actually a really important part of what makes this cool, and it is so much more than campus infrastructure, as you've explained, it is campus infrastructure, but it is so much more. Just like anything else, nothing's ever completely easy and pain free, not even with design, build and with this project, you faced some serious curveballs. There was unexpected rock that got in the way. How did the team navigate that challenge while you still hit your schedule targets, and what role did early trade partner engagement play in keeping it on track? So

 

Jason Tobias  35:54

dealing with issues head on from the beginning is how we deal with issues, challenges, problems, instead of putting your head in the sand just hoping that they'll go away and resolve themselves. And that all starts with and I'll go back to the word culture, right? And so we develop a culture with our trade partners that this is a collaborative effort. We're all one team, and so we've got to figure out collectively, how we deal with these issues. So rock, right? It can be a huge unknown. Can cause significant schedule impacts. It can be costly, it can be timely. But for this project, we knew we were going to hit rock. We didn't realize how much rock we were going to hit, so we kind of had a plan in the background as far as what we were going to do with it. And so when we truly hit that rock on the campus, we knew that we had blasting as an option in the background, and so we implemented that immediately. We figured out exactly where our utilities were going to go. We figured out where the other buildings were going to be situated on campus, and where that blasting had to take place specifically where on campus the blasting had to occur in order to deal with that rock and the depths at which it had to occur. By doing that, we were very strategic about how much blasting we had to do, where it had to go, and then in the end, what we had to do with that rock and that, I think that was the kind of the cool thing that we did on this project is typically, you blast rock, you haul it off, you take it somewhere else, and you move on. But here we were able to sort that blasted rock and use it as a sub base for all of the roadways that we had to install. So you know that that speaks to the sustainability aspect of this entire campus. Really neat use of something that could have really gotten our way.

 

Erin Looney  37:45

I love these stories where people talk about items and products that you normally think of as waste. This isn't a design build project in any way, but one of my favorite all time is the floor at the Marlins stadium that was built in 2011 2012 whenever that was is made of recycled Nikes. And it made me think of all the Nikes I've gotten rid of, and where they are in their cycle. And I'm like, I wonder if any of them are in the floor. But it was such a cool thing to use what otherwise would have been a waste product, like you said, with the rock, a little more sturdy than old Nikes, but the same concept of not chucking stuff in the bin. You know, I think that's very cool. Absolutely at the beginning of when you and I were chatting, before we started recording, I mentioned our awards jury referred to it as a model of best practices. So what were some of the specific lessons learned or strategies from this particular project that you think owners should know, especially owners who are new to design build,

 

Jason Tobias  38:42

one of the best practices here that can be translated across all kinds of projects. You need to hold one another accountable design build projects are vast by nature. That's why the model is what it is, by holding each member of the team accountable for information or resolution of issues or decisions. It keeps the project on track, keeps everybody within the rails. And in order to do that, it takes consistent, constant communication and collaboration, and I referenced trust earlier. I think those are some key best practices that anyone getting into the design build realm needs to embrace before they jump right in. And they have to understand that that it is fast, but in order to meet those scheduled deadlines, it's hold each other accountable.

 

Erin Looney  39:34

It's fast, but not fast for fasts sake, which is incredibly hard to say, by the way, so you are also working at the intersection of infrastructure, sustainability and education, when you take everything you've just told me and you distill it to one sentence. So what does this project say about where higher ed and design build are headed in the next few years? Now, before you answer FMI the latest report. That we had come out at the beginning of this year has education at the third highest growth sector for design, build. So obviously it's working, and obviously it's being taken on. So what are you seeing in the next few years in this market? I

 

Jason Tobias  40:15

think there's going to be a huge, or continued, huge emphasis on sustainability and the path to net zero, and utilizing the design build method will enable the team collectively to set these lofty goals and plans, and in order to get buy in from the entire team to achieve these goals, the design build model is the way to go. It's collaborative. It truly, again, takes a team to achieve the goals of the higher ed college or university.

 

Erin Looney  40:47

I know that we've already talked about this a bit, but I just keep coming back to it, because it's what really makes this stand out from a functional point of view. This plant is proof that education is more than just classrooms. Again, inside baseball. I've been a professor for about 15 years, and one of the things I'm constantly saying is, it's more than what we're talking about in here. So I never mind when my students say, Why do I need to know this? I work with a lot of professors who get deeply offended by that question, but I think it's a fair question, and this is that concept in action. You know, it's education, but it isn't opening a book, reading something and hearing somebody talk about it from the front of the room. So how does this project expand, not just the definition of education, what that looks like, but what design build can deliver for colleges and universities?

 

Jason Tobias  41:36

I think whether college or university uses a design build model or the CM at risk model. If education is the true goal, right, which, which it is of a college or university or higher education institute, then I think it's incumbent upon the team to embrace that goal and use the design, build model or the CM at risk model, or whatever, to develop a facility that meets the needs of the institution, and I think it has to really, truly start at the very beginning of the project, because obviously changing course throughout can be costly and affects the schedule, but it's important that the team again, embraces the goals and understands the why, like we talked about previously, why is this important for me? I'm a firm believer of show me how this works. Show me how this is put together, instead of just reading it up in a book. And I think this project truly meets that. That visual component really sets at least at this project, wave Tech students up for success. And I think is a fantastic model for other institutions as well. Absolutely.

 

Erin Looney  42:48

I think it 100% screams useful space and useful information, which is, no matter how you put it, that's what students want. They go to school and they choose their school because it's going to prepare them to do what they want to do for their lives. And this does that on the flip side of education. I also spoke to the other Jason from UC Riverside, and he talked about integrating two student populations for that project. Now with Wake Tech, you integrated students into the facility itself. So connect design build to that living classroom concept a little bit more. It started

 

Jason Tobias  43:24

at the very beginning, and we've kind of talked about that a little bit in that we were challenged to create not only the heart of this campus, but also that teaching facility, and bringing students into a learning environment as they're sitting in a classroom, they can look through this huge class window into the plant to see how things operate. So again, it's bringing students into a living operating facility. They can even go up to the roof and look at the solar panels and how they operate. So it's that engagement. It brings the student into a facility so they can see and touch and feel and learn. Look, I promise

 

Erin Looney  44:06

you, we did not set out to make this adjacent only episode, but both of these leaders are bringing powerful design, build stories to the table, from inclusive student housing in California to sustainable infrastructure that acts as a living lab in North Carolina. Now, as we spotlight these two standout projects, it's worth remembering that higher education is just one of several fast growing sectors for design, build, FMIS, latest market research shows continued expansion across multiple industries. If you want to learn more about where that impact is happening, you can get a copy of the 2024 FMI design, build utilization study for free in the DBIA bookstore@store.dbia.org. We also talked about a lot of other DBIA resources that you can find in the bookstore, many also free. Now, if you've got a project pushing boundaries like these, don't forget DBIA is 20. 25 project team awards are now open for entries, from first time owners to complex, collaborative builds. We celebrate the people and projects redefining what design build can do. Visit dbia.org/awards to learn more. Thanks to the Jason's for being here and for being Jason's. Thanks to Fred Yi for not being a Jason and helping make the show sound good, and thanks to you, Jason or not, for listening. I am Aaron Looney, not Jason, and we'll see you next time on design, build delivers brought to you by us, CAD and our cons company. Learn more at us. Cad.com/dbia,

People on this episode

Head Shot

Erin Looney

Host
Head Shot

Fred Yi

Editor