Lessons in Risk, Readiness and Speed: Revisiting UC Riverside's North District Phase Two (Bonus Content Episode)

In this bonus episode of Design-Build Delivers, we continue the conversation from April’s feature, Living Labs and Inclusive Housing: How Design-Build Serves Higher Education. Jason Dunster, Senior Integrated Design Director at McCarthy Building Companies, returns to share additional insights on what made UC Riverside’s North District Phase Two project a model for inclusive, collaborative campus housing.

Jason digs  into contract structures, risk allocation and the real-world application of design-build best practices, especially when speed, access and innovation are on the line. He also discusses how prefabrication played a critical role in accelerating construction without compromising on quality or stakeholder alignment.

Whether you're a veteran design-builder or exploring collaborative delivery for the first time, this conversation offers valuable takeaways on Owner readiness, progressive design-build and the future of delivery in higher education.

Access all our free design-build resources and learn more about Design-Build Done Right® at dbia.org.

DBIA members are shaping the future, one successful collaboration at a time.

Transcript

 Erin Looney  00:00

welcome to a bonus content episode of the design build delivers podcast brought to you by US CAD an ARKANCE company. I am Erin Looney. Now I'm not going to lie to you. I am not at my best today, recovering from a surprise surgery. Don't ever get kidney stones, folks. Anyway, I'm recording this from a state of being I can only describe as squirrely or maybe a mild chaos with a heating pad. But I didn't want you to miss this extra conversation with Jason Dunster of McCarthy, because if you caught our April episode living labs and Inclusive Housing, how design build serves higher education. You know, he and his fellow Jason, Jason Tobias of Skanska, had a lot to say about design build for modernizing our campuses. So this bonus episode is where we get into the nerdy good stuff like prefabrication contracts, risk. What makes a GMP contract both magical and terrifying, plus Jason's take on what design build success really looks like for higher ed owners stepping into this for the first time. And hey, if you happen to be sitting on your own award worthy project, not sitting on a heating pad like me, DBIA project team awards are still open until May 30. Learn more@dbia.org let's get to it. Well. We've talked a lot about how effective design build can be in modernizing or in expanding higher education facilities. UC Riverside's North District phase two is a great example of that in action. Everything you've said supported that, but rumors, myths, they still abound in higher ed construction, just like any other sector. So what is one misconception you run into about collaborative delivery in higher ed? And how do you help owners see the bigger picture and see past that myth?

Jason Dunster  01:54

One misconception that I still think exists today, that I'd like to shine a little bit of light on is that often the project, delivery, model, design, build, maybe, or see Mar right, that gets the top billing line right. That's the big headlines in the New York Post. But the byline that often is not spoken of enough, and I think has almost sometimes a greater impact on the behaviors of teams is the actual contract model. So that's whether the project may be a lump sum contract model or it's a GMP guaranteed maximum price project, more akin to like progressive design build type project that can change how a team behaves more widely than anything else. A GMP contract, to me, represents the very best of what design build has, but it requires a client to exhibit the utmost in collaborative behaviors, and that's because the risk shift, the cost risk shift happens much later in the project life cycle, and that can be feel very scary to clients. I know I've sat there, I understand that this desire to shift cost risk earlier is sort of a natural inclination of all of us. That's, I think, a misconception, or again, something that deserves a little more attention. Is this the actual contract form underneath design build.

Erin Looney  03:26

So now let's say you're advising a university exploring design build for the first time, especially for student housing, but not exclusively. What would you tell them?

Jason Dunster  03:36

I think it's a it's a question session, right? That you need to as an owner look in the mirror a little bit in terms of, Am I ready for our first design build project? Going back to the DBIA playbook, there's great information about owner readiness. There's committees and documents to really help you explore Am I ready for my first design build project? Personally, I would ask in that reflection, does your organization's culture align with the principles of design build? If the answer is yes, great, go to step two. But if the answer is no, or it's maybe, or you're not sure what additional steps are needed to help you mitigate those risks, one great bridging element are owner advisors. So if you feel like, hey, my internal team may not be fully prepared for this, then I think you can bring in an owner advisor who is qualified and can help you through that first experience in collaborative delivery and then thinking about which of the particular design build delivery models is best. Different models require different levels of client engagement and different risk mitigation techniques. You may decide to select Design Build, but I mentioned that sort of byline that contract form you. And still decide within there what's best for our team. Do I want to shift risk early and go with a lump sum design build, or is my group open enough to allow a GMP type contract form?

Erin Looney  05:13

This is the speculate wildly segment, and we're going to rub up the crystal ball. What do you see coming next for design build in higher education, and are there any innovations or big shifts you think we're going to be talking about five years from now?

Jason Dunster  05:27

One of the top ones in terms of where I see the future going, and that is progressive design build. We know that even if there is an energy level at DBIA related to that, it takes, ultimately, years right for it to work its way through various jurisdictions. If I may just take a quick tangent, is I sometimes take design build for granted, and I realize now that it takes DBIA hundreds, if not 1000s of hours every single year advocating and lobbying at the state level to allow us to do this great delivery model. I no longer take that for granted, and the same thing now will occur with progressive design build, right? We're going to have to advocate and lobby around the country to make sure that we can practice this everywhere we go. I think there's still some time that's going to take right for that to permeate its way around the country. And then I think the other thing that I'm seeing is very different models of financing that are now available to clients, whether it's p3 or introduction of grant funding. I'm seeing clients do very interesting mixes, reverse, P, threes, you name it. There's all sorts of jargon. Those will run parallel to the cyclical nature of our industry, right? And funding sources. There's times where state and federal governments are pushing money down through right to fund higher education projects, and then there's other times where it's not happening. So we're going to need to sort of react to those cyclical moments in time, and so clients are coming up with these alternate procurement methods that will speak to the financial moment in time that we're experiencing.

Erin Looney  07:17

So a little story time again. When I first started at DBIA, I went to this event where I learned about pre fabrication and construction for the first time, I'll admit, and my uneducated reaction was, why don't we do this all the time? Well, I've learned since then it's a lot more common than I thought that day. And pre fabrication comes in a lot of different forms. And in nd two, your team used more than 6800 these are some big numbers we've been talking about today, 6800 pre fabricated wall and floor panels to speed up structural work. How did that decision align with design, build best practices, and what did it take from your team to make that happen efficiently? I'm hearing

Jason Dunster  07:57

the word pre fabrication at all types of events that I'm going to in our AEC industry. It really is the talk as of late. And the first thing that I would say is pre fabrication needs to support the project objectives. You can't just say pre fabrication to a client or a design team or a contractor. Just for pre fabrication sake, you shouldn't do pre fabrication unless the conditions of satisfaction, the schedule, the project goals and visions support that. On this project, it did, and it took a tremendous effort from the entire team to deliver what I believe is going to be the fastest student housing project ever built. That's a big statement, but looking at the production rates, I think it sets a new bar for how fast a project can be delivered, and that was one of the driving goals of the project, and that tied back to our earlier conversation about semesters and being one day late as a year late, we couldn't risk that. So we needed to go fast. We talked a little bit how we envisioned it being built out of wood originally, and we pivoted, and it was this pre fabricated panel system that was selected with the entire team. Briefly, I'd say, well, well, what? What was it, right? So we called it CFS panel system. So that's cold form steel panelized system, and it's built from really simple ingredients that we construct buildings out of today. So nothing exotic, no carbon fiber elements or whatever. It's basically metal studs that are sandwiched with panelized system to form together into panels that could be put on a truck and shipped to the site. They made up the entirety of all the floors and walls, and that brought all this benefit of speed, and I talked about the fire. Resistance and mold, all these things that the campus, who's a long term investor, really liked, from a design build perspective, that ability to pivot early on from the wood to the steel would not have been, I don't think, possible in other types of delivery models, and then the other collaborative element, which I think a topic about pre fabrication, that maybe doesn't get enough attention, is, how are your authorities having jurisdiction? Whether it's a city or a campus, it's the fire marshal, it's the building inspectors. How familiar are they with pre fabrication? They're the ones that ultimately are going to accept and approve your project for occupancy. So if you're introducing something very unusual or exotic or something that they're not familiar with, you risk your project being delayed and complications this particular form of pre fabrication, along with the collaborative delivery model, allowed us to reach agreement with those various authorities, and they accepted, okay, we will approve this process with you. We will be your teammate and helping you accomplish it. So again, another aspect that would have been possible but much more challenging in a traditional delivery model. And that

Erin Looney  11:27

wraps up this bonus edition of design build delivers brought to you by US CAD, An ARKANCE company Learn more at us. Cad.com/dbia, big. Thanks to Jason Dunster for reminding us design build is more than just a delivery method, it's a mindset and one that can literally change the game for student housing when it's done right. If you haven't listened to the full April episode yet, living labs and Inclusive Housing, how design build serves higher education, that is your next stop. We talked with Jason and the other Jason Tobias of Skanska about two award worthy campus projects that push the boundaries of what design build can deliver. This bonus is just a cherry on top of a much more delicious cupcake, which is the full episode. A cupcake sounds great right now and again. DBIA is 2025, project team awards are open through May 30. If you're working on something amazing, do not wait until the last second, says the woman who will absolutely wait until the last second for anything. Do as I say, not as I do, right? We'll also be back later this month with yet another great discussion, this time with 2023 Brunelleschi award winner and DBIA fellow, Bill Hasbrouck and his mentee, Kent State student, Lola president, it's a conversation about mentorship, legacy and what the future of design build looks like from both sides of the experience spectrum. You're going to love it. Thanks for listening. And if you're also having a low energy day or a surprise surgery of your own, take this as your permission to be a little messy, sit back and listen to your favorite podcast, like design, build delivers and still, just show up if you can. You're doing great. You.